Special Men's Meeting
A special men's meeting held at 1040 South Grand Avenue on December 9, 1966 at 8:00 p.m.
Dr. Henry C. Kinley, Founder and Dean Dr. Carl F. Gross, President Dr. Robert Harris, Vice-President Mrs. Mary Gross, Executive Secretary Mrs. Marion E. Harris, Assistant Secretary Mrs. Annebelle Allen, Dean of Women
Forty-eight (48) Men
Total: Fifty-one men (51) and Three (3) Women
The meeting at the above-mentioned time, place and date dedicated by Bishop David Short by a prayer.
The purpose of this meeting was called and conducted by the Founder and Dean, Dr. Henry C. Kinley, as follows:
The purpose of this special meeting is to discuss issues that are not understood as they should be. We have requested three women to be present at this meeting. They are the Executive Secretary, Mrs. Mary Gross, Assistant Secretary, Mrs. Marion Harris; and the teacher of the women, Mrs. Annabelle Allen. It is not our desire to discuss anything in this meeting or any other meeting that cannot be known by everyone. Nevertheless, since the necessity reveals and manifests itself to the point that we should have a topic with the women regarding certain morals, and with the men regarding certain morals, we have seen fit to separate the two groups that we might be able to express ourselves plainly to one another. There will be no riddles nor parables and anything requiring an interpretation will be done here. That is why we are assembled. We do not want any misrepresentation concerning the position of the school on the moral issue. For that reason we have selected certain passages of scripture to be read from the Bible pertaining to this subject up for discussion.
Dr. Harris shall read the 7th chapter of I Corinthians. This chapter, verses 1-40 was written by the Apostle Paul to those that were to preach the Gospel who were left up at Corinth, and they were Jews, not Greeks. Paul left the teachers or instructors up at Corinth to teach the Gospel to the Gentiles, and in his Epistle he was giving instructions to them. The occasion for this Epistle was to explain some things that could not be left unexplained and misunderstood, as many were divided in their opinions. Some were saying one thing and others were saying another -- one saying he was of Cephas and another of Apollos, etc. So, there were just some things that could not wait and needed immediate attention. Thus, Paul wrote to rectify and correct the doctrine. These emergencies were covered in this Epistle. In the latter part of his epistle he said, "The rest of it I will set in order when I arrive," or come up there.
Now this meeting tonight was called because it is an emergency; the doctrine that pertaineth unto the people under the Dispensation of Grace. I want you to know that there is definitely a difference between the Dispensation of Grace and the Dispensation of the Law. Under the Law was the flesh. I mean the Jews. Don't mix up the Gentiles in it but do remember that the Jews were to preach and teach the Gentiles the correct interpretation of the Law as it pertaineth in both the Dispensation of the Law and in the Dispensation of Grace. If you notice in this epistle, Paul made this clear. He wrote about a man and his wife as well as the difference between a virgin and a wife. Furthermore, although Paul does not express it, he was a eunuch. Now under the Dispensation of the Law, according to Deutoronomy (Deuteronomy?) 23:1, a eunuch was one who had been wounded in the seeds. He could not enter into the congregation of the assembly. Since he did not have any children or offspring of his own, he was not able to teach the offspring of others. Please bear in mind that there are more than one type of eunuch.
The Gentiles did by nature the things contained under the Law, and if anything, they were more strict than the Jews to whom the Law was given. They did not allow any disrespect by anyone concerning the woman they called their wife. They did not believe in those things nor did they practice those things. As far as their practice of the Law, it was more of a fulfillment than by the Jews, despite the fact that the Law was not given to the Gentiles.
Regarding fornication and adultery, they are two different things. You should know your place; know and understand according to what is being taught in this class relative to this subject. According to your Constitution, you should know something concerning the Law, most particularly those of the staff and board members. I am referring to the Civil Law and not the Mosaic Law, or the Law of the Spirit. We have always desired to operate as much as possible in unison and harmony with the Civil Law. The Apostle Peter wrote that every ordinance of man should be obeyed for the Lord's sake. Just because you belong to this school, or let us say you are a Christian, does not justify you in breaking the Law. You thereby would be subject to a fine or worse penalty. The idea of the Civil Law is basically the moral or Mosaic Law.
The morals we wish to discuss here are according to the Mosaic Law as well as the Spirit Law. Just because you have the Holy Ghost, if that is what you want to call it, is no justification for you to use your liberties as a cloak of maliciousness by breaking any law. If you do this, you are nothing but a sinner, and sin is a transgression of the Law.
We also intend to tell you how to behave yourselves as men or as married men and your wives. There is also a difference between a virgin and a wife, but as a rule, we do not try to find out a definition of a word. We do not know anything at all about the law that pertaineth to eunuchs. Now Paul was a eunuch; Peter was not. Peter had a wife that could render due benevolence unto him. Paul had virgins with him; women, I mean, but being a eunuch he was born with no sexual desires for a woman. For this reason he needed no women for any such thing as bearing offspring or pacification of sexual anxieties. The women whom Paul had with him were virgins, just as he was a eunuch, and they were of the public. There was no need for Paul to give a lecture on his state since he was a eunuch from birth. He desired that all men were as he was when the occasion for violation arose. Now take this just as I said it. Paul was not satisfied with being a eunuch because it had its apparent advantage. It appeared that he had this advantage from birth; therefore, he wasn't satisfied, but rather wanted every man to know that he taught and preached that the Holy Ghost could control a man's passions, appetites, lusts, etc. He didn't want this advantage, as it appeared, over other men, and so he prayed three 3 times that the Lord make him as other men so then they could not say, "Well if you were as we are you would do the same thing that we do, so therefore you have the Holy Ghost." God told him, "My grace is sufficient for thee."
There is a difference between the Dispensation of the Law and the Dispensation of Grace. Paul did not come into the ministry until the Dispensation of Grace, that is until after Pentecost he could not be admitted to the congregation of the assembly. We badly error in trying to apply the things under the Dispensation of the Law over here in this Dispensation. Messiah, while in the flesh is the same one that is a quickening Spirit, and now he is in you under this Dispensation of Grace.
Dr. Harris read Matthew 19:1-12.
That means just what it says without any propping up, and I have almost explained it in the case of the Apostle Paul, but I thought we should read it so that you will know that it is in the Bible, and you could go there and check on it before we leave -- this 19th chapter of Matthew. I want you to notice the three (3) types of eunuchs. As recorded in Romans 5:14, we see that Messiah himself was the second Adam. The Messiah was not born a eunuch as pertaineth to the flesh. The first Adam was masculine and feminine, united into one embodiment; by this I mean that man was hermaphroditic; that is, male and female in one body, because God was reflecting how it is with the Godhead. You must take the natural or the visible things; there is no other way to understand the invisible, thus God made man and called their name Adam. That means that Adam had a womb and other necessary generative organs in his body. God caused a deep sleep to fall upon him and he divided the sexes; that is, he took the woman out of the man and gave her to him, and she was his wife. God joined them together and the operation was performed by -- and the presentation to the man was all performed by God, or the operation of God.
Messiah was a figure of the first Adam, so being a figure, he did not have any physical wife. There have been speculations concerning his visits to Mary and Martha as to whether he made any advances or approaches to them, and he was watched all of the time to find out his attitude toward this matter. Messiah went into his ministry at thirty (30) years of age, which ministry lasted for three and one-half (32) years, and there was no effort made to get acquainted with any woman with the intentions of marrying or having sexual relationships. In the classification of these eunuchs, it says there were some born eunuchs, some made eunuchs of men (castration), and some made themselves eunuchs for the Kingdom of Heaven's sake. Messiah was not born a eunuch, but for the Kingdom of Heaven he suppressed and controlled himself because he was the personification of the Holy Ghost, and it brought him under subjection and control of his physical body, because if his Kingdom be not of this world, his wife cannot be of that world either -- not under the Dispensation of the Law. You have never heard of a king without a queen having posterity have you? When the deep sleep fell upon Adam, God took that womb out of man and also the bone went along with the flesh.
I have tried to show you the fulfillment of it. Messiah died an innocent man, but he took on the sins of the world. When Adam went to sleep back in the Garden, he had not committed any sin when God took that woman out of him. When Messiah hung on the cross, no man had been able to convict him of sin; he was made to be sin for us that we might be the righteousness of God in him. Therefore, when he bowed his head he said, "Father into thy hands I commend my Spirit," and he died in that state just as Adam had done. Yes, Adam was totally immersed, inundated or baptized under the influence of the Spirit, and he went to sleep in the same manner as did the Messiah. When Messiah was put in the tomb and resurrected from the dead, many of the 'sons' that slept in the dust of the earth arose with him, which were his bride; and when Adam awoke in the Garden of Eden he received his wife.
Under the Dispensation of the Law God make the promise to Israel, and all of Israel, both masculine and feminine, made up his wife (see Jeremiah 31:31). God was Israel's husband, the one God of all of them who made up the congregation or assembly. That is why I say that all of you, male and female, are my wife in the Spirit. To say the same thing, there is no such thing as male and female in the Spirit or Kingdom. I am trying to show you the conditions under the Law so you can bring it on over in the Dispensation of Grace.
When Joshua carried the Israelites across the River Jordan he marked off the land in Canaan for the inheritance of the twelve (12) tribes, and each one of those tribes had their specific area or territory: The tribe of Judah, or kingship tribe out of which came the Kings; and the tribe of Levi, from which came the priests or the priesthood tribe, did not have their inheritance in Palestine, and they carried out their sex among themselves, or within their own tribe. They could not intermarry between the tribes because they had to keep the inheritance within their own tribe, and yet in a sense they were all twelve (12) brothers. Now this is not understood today. There are some who say that man should marry in his own race after the manner that was done under the Law. The Civil Law is now trying to base their thinking on the moral Law.
As we have referred to the eunuch in the 19th chapter of Matthew, Messiah was not born a eunuch because it was necessary for him to have a wife but not in the flesh, but rather in the Spirit. He was born King of the Jews and made himself a eunuch. He did not have any advantage because he had all of the natures combined within himself, and if he had had an advantage he could not have fulfilled the Law. When he went on into his Kingdom there was his wife or bride as it was under the Dispensation of the Law -- Tommy? I told them not to let you come, and I am not responsible for that. Jeffrey came to me and asked me should he come and I told him 'no', because according to the trend of the people's thinking, they have not any business here, and then they do, in the way God looks at it. He is on his own at thirteen (13) years of age and he is responsible just as the rest of these children; they are responsible for their conduct. Messiah was twelve (12) years old when he said he was about his Father's business. But listen, this thing is not for the kids because the old folks are the cause of this meeting. Do you think the children can be any better because of the old folks, when it is the old folks that are doing these things?
Now for a rundown on the Godhead: God - Yahvah; Elohim - Holy Ghost; Messiah - Yahshua; and when I say shape and form I don't mean physical but incorporeal -- a unity of the attributes. I am talking about life, justice, etc. Now that took on a physical form; Adam, the first man back there in the Garden of Eden was a reflection of the incorporeal.
We now know what a eunuch is, and a virgin is a woman in the strictest sense that has nothing to do with a man. That is what makes a virgin and a eunuch even, or the same and they do not need to go around putting it in the paper nor do they have to lie about it. A man that is born a eunuch has no use for a woman at any time, but the man who has the Holy Spirit suppresses his sexual desires and brings them under subjection of the Holy Spirit. He does not go around to every woman because he has his own wife.
The Israelites broke everything in the Law and whatever God told them not to do, that is what they did, for which he punished them. In this present Dispensation someone will come up talking about having the Holy Ghost and that they have a piece of paper, but this certainly does not replace the Holy Ghost. Our problem here is this moral issue, and you are placing it on my shoulders and I do not like it. I never did teach that you are free to run around here with this woman and that woman and have babies with this one and that one, etc., nor to put this one down and go get another at will. I never did teach this, and I never will and some of you Ministers that have licenses (ministers' licenses) have gone around and had babies with this woman and so forth. We see you at one time and you are with this one and later that one. Don't say you didn't do it; you are doing it, and it certainly is bad morals. This thing is going on all over the world but you cannot predicate the Divine Law on the Civil Law. I never taught you that a piece of paper was it as far as God is concerned, but love is the fulfillment of it. Love is the fulfillment of the Law. I have always stated that the woman you have now with a piece of paper is not what makes a wife but love, true love through the unity of the Spirit between the male and female. This is the same as the unity of the first Adam and his wife. Some of you living in the same house with a piece of paper were never married in the first place so far as righteousness is concerned-- just raising hell under that roof, sleeping together and eating together, but still not married according to Divine Law. Now I did teach that, so if you have one of these situations at home, you know what it is. We are already one flesh and one blood to begin with, but if you had the right spirit, true love, true companionship, there would be no separation and no divorce there at all -- never has there been and never will here be unless, because of he hardness of your heart.
Fornication is evidenced by someone who does not claim to have a wife in the first place; unmarried, running from this one to that one; and so forth, while adultery is evidenced by one who is married, or has a mate, and goes out and does the same thing. Neither one is permissible, for as the Apostle Paul said, "Let every man have his own wife" (see the 7th chapter of I Corinthians). I have a wife according to Civil Law with a piece of apper (paper?). I wouldn't give you a nickle (nickel?) for a divorce. That piece of paper won't help me any more than a divorce so far as God is concerned. If you and the one you have at home just can't get along, it is better to get on away from there. Paul said that it is better for the unbelieving to depart, and I didn't say that, but Paul did, but no, we want someone to think that we are sanctified. A lot of folks have gotten killed like that. The thing of it now is, if you do go to the Court House and get a piece of paper, which is the marriage license, and then things do not work out, you go back for another piece of paper, and it cost so much you cannot afford it. The devil always has his hand out. This is going on all over Los Angeles, all over the world. Well then, if you go get someone else, then the Law gets you for bigamy. You had better straighten up and learn what is going on! Now I say this, if you get someone and come in here and learn something about the truth of this thing, don't you know you haven't any business running around from one woman to another? You should have that much sense, but instead, you jump here and say that what you are doing is what I teach. I say you are a LIAR and the truth isn't in you; you have a woman you call your wife -- stay with her. The world is looking at you, and they are reading you. You stay right there with her, and don't let any man go in there, for if you do that is wrong; I don't teach junk like that.
I cannot say that I was born a eunuch because I have too many children for that. There is nothing in the Bible that says that I am subject unto my wife -- God is the head of me and I am the head of the woman. From 1944 to 1957 I had not lived with my wife, but just for such things as this we went back for the public's sake. No one ever had to make me take care of my physical children since I knew that was my duty and I did it. I pay for them; I raise them, and if any of my children ask me for anything, I give it to them without considering their age. Now I am an old man, and if I tried to tell you that I run round out here after women you would laugh me to scorn because you don't believe this; but now I know the case of Abraham. We have a medical doctor here that can tell you this as far as having children is concerned. The doctor can tell you that if the sperm count falls below 60 million, there is no possibility of child bearing and man is impotent. This is purely from a physiological point of view. If you are not smart enough to see this, then you are dumber than I thought.
Some people consider themselves as doing what they see me do, or think they see me do. Sister Mary is my secretary and also the wife of Brother Ralph Gross according to the Civil Law, and they can tell you what I told them. All others who came to me with or without children, I asked to stay together, and I have never given you permission to go from one to another. When you use your liberties as a cloak, that is the moral side of it; then you want to blame it on me, and you want to say that I teach it and am in harmony with it. Now you are the one that will have to stand in the judgment for it. Don't say you did not do it because you did and I jumped you about it. I am now saying that we will rescind your Minister's License for this very thing, and that goes for my sons and everyone else. I have no pets. I have some sons sitting here and what they have done, they did on their own, not on my recommendation. Yes, I want you to know that I brought the accusation against you that have done this and are doing this, all of you. Listen, you are entitled to a wife or husband, and I am not going around picking them out for you, and it does not matter to me what race or nationality they are. Just about everyone in this class has run up to my house at one time or another and told me about their domestic problems, and I have told all of you the same thing.
You can now go on and do what you choose; go to hell if you want to, my business is preaching the gospel. When you do these things, don't tell someone that I am teaching it because this is your own wrongdoing -- yes, I said wrong. Now since we are moralistic, I told you not to smoke cigarettes around in the building. I smoke or take a drink if I desire, but that will not de-christianize me. I do use discretion or sense about when and how to do a thing, and no one has any business telling me about drinking whiskey, etc. They drink grape juice for the Lord's supper, which will kill you quicker than a fifth, and that is what Paul was telling them regarding the moral law, matrimonial law and the ordinances when he said, "The rest I will set in order when I get there" (see I Corinthians 11:34), but this tonight is an emergency, so let us get this straightened out now.
People are looking at you when you come here for awhile with this one and then that one, etc. Look, the Civil Law has something for that, and the Civil Law says this: if you stay with a woman so long then that is your common-law wife, and they are out of accord with you coming up here with two or three common-law wives; therefore, it would pay you to try and keep someone or something. You know good and well that I do not teach anything like that, and I say you are wrong; it is a violation of morals. You are entitled to have a woman; God said to populate the earth, but he did not say do it all alone, or with every woman you can get. It wasn't that way in the beginning and it certainly is not that way now. Yes, I am talking to everyone in here so don't run downstairs and say this or that or the other. What I am telling you does not need an interpretation; that is what I am doing now. You are not capable of interpretin (interpreting?) for me, and the truth of it is that you cannot qualify to interpret for the Holy Ghost, so let it alone.
If you desire to ask something about this matter, ask me since what I say can definitely explain without your help. I am forced to tell you this and if I am what I really hope that you are, or what you take me to be, I would rather tell you now rather than wait until down the road when you truly find out who I am, and then I will have to send you to the LAKE for his foolishness. We are not going to do this anymore; we are not going to let it be like this. What you all are doing and saying is that I am not a man of God. Who do you know that has predicted the history of the world for thirty-five (35) years and performed all of the miracles that have been seen in this class? You know that this is not just a common ordinary man.
Dr. Robert Harris read Romans 7:1 as follows: "Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth?"
Here is a clear example of the many times that I have told you about people getting up reading the Bible and do not know what they are reading, and Paul said "I speak to them that know the Law." The Gentiles did not know the Law and the Apostles, Peter and Paul, had not been to Rome but here Paul is writing an epistle to the church or assembly at Rome in AD 60. In the 2nd chapter of Acts we read that there were dwelling at Jerusalem all sorts of people, and 3,000 were added to the congregation on that day, people from all nations. Paul was made minister of the Gentiles; Peter was the first one to preach to the Gentiles up at Caesarea, and it is recorded that they were from Rome. The Jews that were there on the Day of Pentecost were devout Jews out of every nation. In A.D. 40 Peter preached to Cornelius; yes, Peter was first to preach to the Romans who were Gentiles. The Law had dominion over the man and not the woman, but when the Messiah gave up the ghost, we became divorced from the Law and now we are married to another, the Incorporeal or the Holy Ghost, which we did not have under the Law. We were not married until then, therefore now you must be married from now on around the corner where there will not be any divorce. If we are divorced from the flesh and married to the Spirit, and we both have the same Spirit, what do you mean by divorce? Spiritual things are revealed only by the Holy Ghost. You want me to think that you are married but I say this; suffer with her, and if she is what she should be, she will convert you; and if you are what you should be, you will convert her. If love be there it will master the situation; if it is not there then there is no cure.
Paul wrote to Titus, a Bishop, on how to behave himself and he stated, "Be the husband of one wife" (see Titus 1:6). Spiritually speaking, you are my household and if I do not provide, give you bread or the true word of God, then I am worse than an infidel. An infidel is an unbeliever; therefore, I must tell you about your morals etc., since it appears that you have not learned up to this point. According to your Constitution and State, I give you licenses and you must behave and conduct yourselves according to the Holy Ghost and these scriptures. If you are not going to do that, I do not want to issue licenses to you and then turn around and take them back because they are supposed to be for a lifetime. That is the confidence which I have in the Holy Ghost, but if you are going to fall down with the Holy Ghost, all of us just might as well quit. I am talking plainly to you and so I am telling you to quit running around after these women and having babies, etc.
If you want a wife, get one, I mean one! Marry her and keep her; then you say, "who are you talking to?" You are here, aren't you? You are not a man if you have to be made to take care of your wife and children, go to work and get some bread, etc. for them. Do all things honestly. Don't be a hypocrite. Honesty becomes the people of God.
What in hell other kind of stuff can a person be into that is any worse than what has come up here? We are all in hell which, when translated, is the earth or botomless (bottomless?) pit. Since you call yourselves sons or teachers in this school, you should be able with the Holy Ghost to keep your own wife pure. Don't tell me you are living the life and then do the things you are doing. For God's sake, don't tell them you belong to this school. Tell them somewhere else. Even worse than this you say, "Well I am one of the preachers." If that woman had any sense, she wouldn't be doing what she is and if you were right you would not request it; you should be trying to prove your honesty, devotion and loyalty to her. I can't go around here petting what you call my flesh and blood such as Glenn, Clifford, Lena and Jack; they don't mean anymore to me than you do and I am not going to have my sons around here disgracing what I am teaching, trying to make a monkey out of me. Clifford is a living monumental figure to confirm and verify my ministry. Now, if he slips, he knows he is on his own and he has done it.
I don't like these meetings and there are more children on the way who are not yet born. I don't preach and teach this; it isn't even good sense let alone good morals or the Holy Ghost. Then you say we are not under the Law but the Dispensation of Grace. Look, the Holy Ghost never did teach anything like that. We are not a bunch of cattle or animals and you cannot do what you have been doing and put it on me.
Question: Would the wives or women that Jacob had children by and also Abraham under that Dispensation, would that be considered immoral?
Answer: Dr. H.C. Kinley -- Abraham, Isaac, Jacob or any of Patriarchs who violated what I am telling you about, broke the LAW. The book says this, answering your question, "I am the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob (see Exodus 3:6) and he was visiting the iniquities of the fathers upon the children of the third and fourth generations (see Exodus 20:5) so the sins, gifts and callings were without repentance. They all sinned. Before the Law, sin was in the world and sin is a transgression of the Law.
Question: When we come into the School, is this a place where you save me or do I save myself, or how does a fellow go about being saved?
Answer: Dr. H.C. Kinley -- Now I tell you what I come here for: I come to preach and teach the gospel for what it really is and it is up to you as to what you come for. I don't come down here to learn because when I come, the boss (God) is in me and I don't think you can teach me anything. It is apparent that some of you didn't come to learn because if you did, as plain as I make a thing, you could not go right out and disobey it -- it is apparent that you didn't come to learn.
Question: Is there two or three kinds of truth?
Answer: Dr. H.C. Kinley -- No, there is BUT ONE TRUTH.
Question: Can a person do little things or big things, or big things and be wrong?
Answer: Dr. H.C. Kinley -- No, it is the little foxes that destroy the vine.
Question: Before I came into the school, I believed that man has to believe in himself. I don't believe that coming here and listening will save me by what you speak on the floor?
Comment: Dr. H.C. Kinley -- There are some smart men sitting here and they know whether your question and my answer is correct or whether I have answered you correctly.
Question: Before I came here I was told that this was a school where you come to learn and know the truth, that is one reason I am here. Does a person have to come here and listen? I believed some things before I got here; -- what does a person have to do?
Answer: Dr. H.C. Kinley -- What I teach here in this school is this: this man, Williams, came here from the Church of Christ and he had to out what he had. I am telling you all the time that God is incarnated in me; you are not capable of telling me anything. I do not care what you believed before you came here because I have sense enough to know that some are sitting right here and do not have the Holy Ghost, but what you think, feel, and believe will not change the truth which is all I teach here, whether you like it or not. Here is Bishop Short, whose name is recorded in Who's Who in Black America. By his coming here does in no wise show that one must know everything. The Holy Ghost will straighten all things out between him and me. The first thing to learn is that there is a God and there is a Devil; there is a right and there is a wrong. That is why you came here, in order to know what is right and what is wrong. I cannot make this man or any man accept anything, but I do speak the truth, and your testimony is that you came here to learn the truth. That is everybody's testimony. If you did not come for that, then you did not come for any good reason and you ought not be here. It is my job to deliver you spotless and blameless. My job is telling you the truth and also proving it with everything that you claim to use to dispute the truth. The purpose of this meeting is to express in some manner that you or any idiot can understand that you are no man at all running around here getting these women pregnant and breaking up homes. No man can disobey God and get by with it. If I cannot answer this man's questions, then I have no business at all.
Question: Say you did right all your life?
Answer: Dr. H.C. Kinley -- That is what everybody says and I said the same thing before I found out the truth.
Question: Well, what happens if you don't know?
Answer: Dr. H.C. Kinley -- Well, that is different. A lot of times we do wrong trying to do right; I know I did and there is no one here that wants to be wrong just for the sake of being wrong. The Devil knows better than that. Is God a kind of God that will let you do wrong instead of letting you do right? Your Bible tells you that no angel or anyone ever sinned and was allowed to go without punishment; you cannot disobey God and get by with it. In your Law there is a sacrifice that was to be offered up for your ignorance. Many of us have done wrong, not because we wanted to, since we did not know the difference, but when you find out how you are wrong, then that is when you straighten up, which is what conversion means. There isn't a soul here tonight that did not know better about the things which I have said unto you. You knew better before you came here since your consciences teach you better than that -- unless they are seared with a hot iron. There is such a thing as a man's conscience being seared and you do not even pray for those folks since they are going to hell anyway. If your mind is fixed when you come here, and I have manifested all these miracles, etc. and you don't believe, then you can just go to hell if you want to; I have told you and it is up to you to believe or not.
Question: Is it possible that a man dies and goes to hell? I always believed that I will be saved. Some in class have told me, well, you ought to change to be saved, but I always did believe that I will be saved when I die?
Answer: Dr. H.C. Kinley -- I want to tell you that you will never be saved until you make up your mind to obey God and nobody else. I don't care what you believe about it; I am telling you just like it is. I can't be saved on my own grounds but on God's. Don't go out here and try to interpret what I said or what I mean by what I say; I say let that alone. I am tired of you running up in front of me. I said that what you are doing out here is wrong, so don't try to justify it by any Bible. God intended to populate the earth but not the way you are doing it. That is what the Devil has up here now with birth control and all. I don't care what the Devil thinks, says, or believes; God is not going to have any hindrances or obstructions.
Question: My being a Minister; I go to dances, bars and so forth. Some say it is unbecoming a Minister or it is wrong conduct. Explain this to me so that I will know how to conduct myself or where to go or what to do.
Answer: Dr. H.C. Kinley -- I understand that all the world lies in wickedness, and I understand that God sent the Disciples out, but he also told them to stay there in Jerusalem until they received the Holy Ghost because if they did not, they would not be fit to go (See Luke 24:49). Don't go down there and be a partaker of their evil doings. Some of you have gone off from here and you are one. A man is paying you to do a job and you try to preach the gospel; he is paying you to work but not to preach.
Wherever you go is for a purpose; if eating meat offends my brother, I won't go here, there, and yon or wherever. I am not saying it is right or wrong to go anywhere. We all know that we cannot preach to a drunk man and get anything across to him or anyone else with their minds full of something else. What I am saying is this: I am not condemning natural things but showing the importance of limits, temperance, and teaching the power of the Holy Ghost. I am not going to teach physical things, but the way you handle or control a thing is what condemns or justifies, and leads you as well as the conditions in this place and that place. I can go into any kind of a place and have perfect control; I take care of business without participating or indulging in them; the Holy Ghost will control all things.
Let this stay just like I have told you. Correct whatever is wrong and make it right. I am not teaching celibacy of the priesthood but control and righteousness in all things through the Holy Ghost. Look! I am working and I expect to get paid. I already belong to the union and the unity, and I am paid up there, up to date. I mean by that -- the Holy Spirit, for there is a crown laid up for me in glory. I have not gotten my diploma yet because if I had received it, I would have this mortal body off and have on an immortal one; but I am not one that beateth the air but press forward to the mark of the high calling, or Yahshua the Messiah. Not that I have already attained, for I know there is a crown of righteousness laid up for me which that righteous Judge, the Lord, will give me at that Day, at his appearing at the Kingdom, and I do press forward and I won't be disappointed because that which I have committed to his charge, he is able to keep until that day, and that is what I am trying to get you to see.
Doxology: Dr. Burbank Mitchell - Jude 24-25. "Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present YOU faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy, To the only wise God our Saviour, BE glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever, Amen."
Meeting adjourned at 11:00 p.m.