Difference between revisions of "Discussion at San Luis Obispo"

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DISCUSSION AT SAN LUIS OBISPO Lecture given by Dr. Kinley on February 13, 1971.

A BUSINESS MEETING WAS HELD THURSDAY OR FRIDAY NIGHT. THIS TRANSCRIPT IS OF A DISCUSSION OCCURRING SATURDAY NIGHT. SAN LUIS OBISPO TAPE RECORDING RECEIVED FROM ROGER JACKSON 2 90 MINUTES AUDIO CASSETTES CATALOG # - 71.0213 TRANSCRIBED BY JACKIE BOWERS PROOFREAD BY GERRY ROTHSTEIN AND MARY GROSS APPROVED BY THE INTERNATIONAL PUBLIC RELATIONS COMMITTEE - MARCH 1995

TRANSCRIBER'S NOTES

1. GROUP COMMENTS AND GENERAL CONVERSATION HAS NOT BEEN TRANSCRIBED UNLESS IT WAS PERTINENT TO DR. KINLEY'S DISCOURSE. 2. ... INDICATES THAT DR. KINLEY ENDED A WORD OR A SENTENCE WITHOUT VERBALLY COMPLETING IT. 3. UNLESS EMPHASIZED BY DR. KINLEY PAUSE WORDS HAVE BEEN LEFT OUT OF THE TRANSCRIPT FOR THE SAKE OF EASE IN READABILITY AND COMPREHENSION (AH, UH, SEE, YOU SEE, YOU SEE WHAT I MEAN, YOU SEE WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT, UNDERSTAND, YOU UNDERSTAND.) 4. ___ INDICATES AN INAUDIBLE WORD OR SYLLABLE 5. WORDS IN CAPITAL LETTERS ARE COMMENTS OF THE TRANSCRIBER

DR. KINLEY: ... as you go on and to know Him and just bear this in mind that He's infinite in wisdom, He is infinite wisdom. He is infinite intelligence. And whenever you get around to a place where you can suffer.., well we'll say, Mickey don't mind..

DR. EDWARD MIXON: Go right ahead, Doc.

DR. KINLEY: Since you're from Detroit, we'll just make you the goat. Whenever you can bear with the faults as you see `em to be. Now you don't have anything else to do but look at Mixon's faults, you ain't spending no time looking at your own. You get the point. You ain't spending no time at all you're just looking at nothing else, just like Isaiah. He couldn't see a thing but Uzziah. Isaiah, Uzziah the king of.., he had his eyes, he had his eyes blocked. He couldn't see nothing else but Uzziah, the king of Israel, but when Uzziah died, he said then I saw but Uzziah must die first. Then I saw Elohim. Now, while I'm on that, I think I have told you that before, now that's a mistranslation. The word lord is correlated or is.., in other words is translated Yahweh. Now nobody has ever seen Yahweh. Why? Because you can't get out of Him to look back at Him, so then if you see Yahweh, which you can, you have to see Him in Yahshua the Messiah, you see Him manifested in a little old body. Then since I said that, when you see Him in Yahshua the Messiah, `when you see me you see the Father,' that's what I'm talking about, you're looking then in limitations. Did you get what I meant? Did you all follow me there? He said when you see me you see you the Father. Now what He's talking about is you see Him in limitations, you don't see the totality of it, just.., in other words you just see the Father is in Him but not, not the totality of it. I tell you it's something to, to really comprehend and understand, it's great. Yahweh is so great, words will not.., they're inadequate and insufficient to state the greatness of Yahweh. Yes indeed. And I just tell you I, I think all the time, I just think all day and night and I want to tell you this, I think I should: I realize the responsibilities placed upon my shoulders. I realize that, I'm fully conscious of it at all times, there's not a minute, not a day, not an hour. Now, I may do what you call take vengeance upon somebody. You say, `well, right there's where I run out on Dr. Kinley, now if he was like he ought to be he wouldn't have done that thing.' Well now, let me give you an example. Would that be all right if I give you an example. Now there's Pope John the 23rd. Now you know I wrote in that book about that man. Well now if I has like I oughta be I wouldn't have taken vengeance on him. I may jump on any one of you and I will do it. I will jump on.., I'll jump on anybody from anywhere. I'll do that. That's my duty and I should do it. And I don't do it because I don't love you, I do it because I do. It hurts me to my very heart to see any of you make any mistakes. And I don't appreciate it too much about Coy coming and telling me about you, or Freddie or you coming telling me about someone. I don't appreciate that too much because all of you are in this war together, in a war, because one of the darts hits Coy or one of them hits you I don't believe in you just stop, just stop and say, `well if Coy was what he oughta be or if Mixon was what he oughta be, he wouldn't got shot.' And hardly before you can get that out of your mouth, then you done got shot with a dart, before you got the sentence finished.

Now let's, let's, let's take this thing like it oughta be and let's love one another, despise the cross and the shame of it, but press on forward to the glory that is set before us. And if there's any way under the sun, which there is, for you to be what you oughta be and help somebody else, do that, at any, at any cost even if it costs your life, try with all there in you is.

Now here's another thing I wanna mention while we're in this topic. I want none of you to forget this and there is some of you I don't think would over look it: this is the devil's domain. He was cast out of heaven, he's the prince of the power of the air. It is his domain, meaning this: the devil looks like Jesus. He has what you call voluntary humility, and just volunteers to be that way. Now don't you forget, don't, don't, don't miss this one, don't you miss this one. Now Yahweh Elohim made him like that and that boy looks good. He's a good.., and millions upon top of millions upon top of millions, yea billions are deceived by him. But the thought that I'm trying to impart to you is this: if you spent some time trying to see how you are, spend more time trying to see how you are. Now, let me, let me turn that right around the other way. Now, I was sent into the world, I done said this enough times to make even me sick to say nothing about you, the purpose for which I was sent in and if I am what I say that I am then vengeance.., and it's my duty to chastise you to whip the very living daylights out of you, if necessary kill you. Now you can't convict Yahweh of murder or unrighteousness because He punishes the unrighteous, you can't convict Him of that. It's right that He does. You can't judge Him unrighteous because He went down there and killed Pharaoh. You can't say, `well if God was what He oughta be He wouldn't never have done that man like that.' Do you see what I mean? Do you understand? So that's the way it is. I would much rather see you have a few welts and be saved, I'd feel much better see you have a few welts and be saved through the chastisement than to, to be lost. It's wonderful, it's truthfully wonderful.

And now children I think I should say this, I think I should, which I have been continually trying to impress that upon your mind. Now this thing ain't running much further. Now, it's out of order, I can't tell you day nor hour. The best I can say to you is just like the Messiah said, `it's not given for you to know the times and the season that the Father has kept in His own power, but you shall receive power after that the Holy Spirit has come upon you and you shall be witnesses unto me in Judea, Jerusalem, Judea, Samaria and uttermost parts of the world.' In other words, I can't tell you that the Holy Spirit will be poured out on the 6th day of June very early in the morning around nine o'clock or establish a specific date. Let me get, let me get this over to you. Now you all might have to help with this, might have to help the whole business with this. The day of Yahweh is ever present. The day of salvation is ever present. The day of Yahweh is ever present. And as He told Jeremiah, said you don't know what time I might speak concerning the whole nation and just annihilate them, the whole nation, but the day of Yahweh, let me put it this way, is at hand and has been, let's say, all the way through. Now that'll, that'll, that'll keep you from stumbling if you see what I'm talking about. As Paul says to the, thessalonians, said, `now the day of Yahweh, you don't have no need for me to write to you about that.'

So it's, it's really wonderful and then let me say this. When you really get down to business like you should, as Yahshua the Messiah said to His disciples (now listen at this one) `if,' there goes that if, `if you love me you will keep my commandments.' You got the pro and con of it? If you don't then you won't keep.., now for you to keep `em, your conscience is clear. If you don't, your conscience is condemned. Now, some people know that they're condemned within their own conscience and then try to justify themselves but as I told you before, you have that spirit of discerning, you can point out everyone of `em. If I would.., if I wanted to I could go right straight through that audience and put my hand on every man, woman, and all in that place but I don't do it that way. I'm just preaching.., whosoever will let him come and drink of the water of life freely, just whosoever will. `Well,' you say, `I know that whosoever will, well, I tell you, you can lead me to water but you can't make me drink, you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink.' Just give him a little salt. The word is seasoned, give him a little salt but if salt has lost it's season wherewith it's seasoned, then, then it's good for nothing but to be cast out and cast into man and trodden under... Now that's why there's so much preaching, there's no salt in it, it's lost its savor. It don't mean nothing. The preachers ain't nothing and the audience ain't nothing, it's just done lost out, in short God is dead. The devil, he ain't never been alive in this respect: Yahweh created him, He knew what the purpose He'd created him for, He knew all the time just what he was there for. And he's good too, good for the purpose for which He created him. And it's not evil for Yahweh to create a devil. He has a perfect right to say what His purpose is and plan is through the dispensation and ages. And there's nothing to hinder Him to obstruct or keep Him from carrying it out, even the devil. Now, what the whole thing amounts to is just this: here's someone, we wanna be stubborn, here's one over wanna be stubborn. Now it don't work like that. While it hurts for our family and those whom you know as being personalities. But you see there's a place, Yahweh got a place for everything. He's got a place. And that's the way it is.

Now sometime you can get to just talking to people and say, `so and so died and went to heaven,' talking about Dives1 and Lazarus, the rich man and Lazarus and the gulf between `em. And I say to somebody, now look if you wanna save your soul or got to hell, but you're already in that. That's the reality of it. But the carnal mind, the confused mind and the contemptuous mind, you're already in hell in this body. I've explained all them things in the school. And you can also be in heaven. Now you can't set up here in hell and convince me that you're in heaven and neither can you be in heaven and say that you're in hell and convince me. Now if you said that, all liars have their part in the lake.

And, and here's the bad part of the thing, people are reading you all the time. They don't understand no Bible, they're reading you. Looking at you. You might say, say, `say look here, did you know that such and such a chapter and such and such a verse it'd say thus and so forth and so on,' even some of the questions that you all have asked me tonight. Whether they know it's in the Book. Now, I'm talking about preachers and priests and Popes, they didn't even know it was in the Book. A lot of people when you say Genesis to Revelations, they don't know where Genesis is in the Book, they don't know where Judges in the book, they, they don't know nothing about it, they don't know whether the epistles of Paul are in the back of the Book or in the front. Now here's why I said that: they're looking at you, they ain't looking in the scriptures.

Now, here's the devil, he knows what you ought to be. He knows what you ought to be according to his way of looking at it and he also knows that you can't be what you ought to be because you are as you are. What kind of language is that? Now, that's, that's, that's mystifying language there. In other words, he knows he's condemned. He's headed for the last round up.

And here's something else while we're on that. I want to get you to see. Now the devil is obedient to Yahweh. He's serving the purpose for which he is, was created for and he's doing a good job of it. Now, let's put it like this, that you might understand what I'm talking to you, as the case might.., stand he's lost and you can't convert him, he's got, he's got his job to fulfill but he will be compensated for doing his job. Now, what I'm trying to say now is hard to say. Yahweh will make him for doing.., look, let's put it like this, now here he's out there doing everything to, to make you deny and cause you to lose your soul. Now Yahweh told him to do that. He's not.., now to him the opposition is righteousness. You understand what I'm talking about? Now, I mean this, the devil is right. That's what he was created for to be.., he was created wrong to be right. What kind of talk is that? Or, he was created right to be wrong. Just change it visa versa and hope that we'll get some understanding. He can't be otherwise. That's it. And he just has to be what he is, if he will not lose his reward. And he is doing a good job. Now, here's what I'm talking about: now Yahweh'll make him all over again for doing a swell job that he's doing now. He won't be permitted to exist as he is. You understand?

DR. FRED ALLEN JR.: Just like Mixon read. He'll be created in another manifestation. That'd be the same principle, a different manifestation. Ain't that right, Doc?

DR. KINLEY: Yes. That's correct. What it is, it's just Yahweh operating the opposite. That's the reason why there's no possibility of you converting the devil, how you gonna do that? How you gonna convert God? As Paul said, `who has known the mind of Yahweh that he might chastise or correct or instruct Him.'

(GENERAL DISCUSSION AMONG THE GROUP)

DR. KINLEY: You know I'll tell you something else about that, as Paul said, `what if Yahweh willing to show His wrath, poured out His wrath on the vessels fitted to destruction.' Now, you know how they're fitted that way? Now the potter has power to make one vessel unto honor and another unto dishonor. And how can the same thing say that it's formed `why did you make me?' Oh, there's a lot of hard questions, a lot of hard questions, which brings me right down into what we're saying all the time, now you can't convert the devil, you can cast him out but you can't convert him. If you so deem or judge his disposition to be wrong...

Now, I'll tell you something else about that thing too, that's often overlooked, maybe I might have to depend on Dr. Harris here to help me some with this one. I can explain it, I don't have to give him ___ but to make people understand what I'm talking about. Now, there is what we might describe that you might get it over to you, what we might call a limitation or mental deficiency. A person that is born, reared up with what they might call retardation. You follow me? Now sometimes you get into something like that, sometimes you do. And often times you think this way about that: `well so and so and so and so,' they, they don't see no hope for them, throw up on `em, give up. What are they going do and all like that. But I wanna let you know that Yahweh knows who is mentally retarded and who is not, who is of a feeble mind and who is of a sound mind. And for the feeble mind He is responsible and for the sound mind you are responsible. Now we, we're breaking things down, break it down, down, down, till we get to some climax... Say, `well, so and so, they're a nervous person, and you better go to the doctor and get something for your nerves,' and first one thing and another. Often times you'd get into shape like that where you would have a nervous breakdown, as it is called a nervous breakdown. You have to be very careful in judging a thing like that because this is what happens. Now here's a fella, he's trying to keep up with the Joneses. He's got a $50 a week job and here's a man over here, he's got, the Jones's, he's got a $250 a week job. Now there just ain't no way for you to keep up with the Jones' like that. And then you have first one spasmodic fit and spell and the other, then everybody.., and it becomes an obsession. And then because you can't.., because of the inadequacy, not that you're or the Jones's are better off than you are, cause if the Jones's had all the whole world.., and then they'd didn't have.., they'd be in worse shape than you are, but you don't see that. What I'm talking about is earthly things, seek ye the kingdom first, and then all... And you have to be willing to suffer with what you have, in what, in what Yahweh has blessed you with. And whatever you got, be it much or little, Yahweh blessed you with it. And then you can use it all to the glory of Yahweh instead of you having a nervous breakdown, instead of you worrying yourself to death and everybody around you, cause you don't have a 1971 Rolls Royce and because you can't have a penthouse setting up on top of the mountain overlooking the ocean and everything, or in other words, because you can't be the sun in the sky. Be satisfied with whatsoever. Now Paul when he preached, knowing that he had driven those people to despair, just brought their possessions and all and then dispersed in the daily ministration and the ___ wonder about it, about the earthy things. Now listen close, listen close to what I'm saying. Now, he said each one of you lay by himself in store as Yahweh has prospered, and let him prosper; in other words he could go out there and buy a 1971 Rolls Royce but he's got a Ford, then he's got a little more than it takes to have a Ford, then he's prosperous. He ain't got enough to have a cadi.., a Rolls Royce, but he's got enough for a Ford, and he's got a dollar or two over there. He said, `now let each one of you.., not 10%, for as the Lord has.., as Yahweh's prospered him. What's that for? What's it for? For the poor that's back up to Jerusalem. He has run them out of there and he's persecuted them that was there, and drove some of them to a strange city.

And while I'm on that, I wanna bring this out. Now you have an epistle here that is to the Romans. Now, Paul wrote the epistle to the Romans. Now Peter was never there and Paul has wrote an epistle to `em and when he wrote the epistle he had not been there. Here's a great big question then that comes up. How then did the church get started down in Rome? Now there's not too much said about that because the world just really don't understand how it got started. Now, the Roman Catholics say, `well, Peter was down there, 41, and that's the time the gentiles was grafted in, and from 41 to 67 he was down there, and that's how the church got started down there.' Uh, uhh. No, that ain't it at all. Do you know how it got started down there? Any of you know how it got started? You do?

DR. ROGER JACKSON: ... Jerusalem gathered from strange cities, they went abroad everywhere. DR. FRED ALLEN JR.: As Paul did, Paul led `em out of there. DR. KINLEY: Well, you see when you say that, you have to get me, you have to get me something in the Book about Rome. DR. ROBERT HARRIS: In the 2nd chapter of Acts DR. KINLEY: Correct. That's right. DR. ROBERT HARRIS: when they gathered of the Jews unto them, there was Jews, devout men, out of every nation DR. KINLEY: under heaven.

DR. ROBERT HARRIS: under heaven, Rome, Parthia and so forth and so on, and all. They had come from Rome and other places to Jerusalem down on day of Pentecost.

DR. KINLEY: Not on the day of Pentecost. DR. ROBERT HARRIS: What'd he say? DR. KINLEY: No on DR. ROBERT HARRIS: the year of Jubilee DR. KINLEY: They were dwelling there on the Day of Pentecost. They had come there years before then, some of them. DR. ROBERT HARRIS: So when the persecution broke out then they were dispersed back. DR. KINLEY: That's correct. DR. ROBERT HARRIS: where they had come from, some of `em went back to Rome where they had formally...

DR. KINLEY: After Pentecost. Not that Peter or Paul had been there. That's right, Dr. Harris. That's right, Roger, I knew that's what you meant, but whenever you say something you have take some Bible for it, cause if you don't get it in, out of the Bible then the folks ain't gonna take it.

(DISCUSSION AMONG THE GROUP)

DR. KINLEY: Yes, it's wonderful, really wonderful, it's really wonderful. But you see, let me see if I can say this in a way that it can be understood. I'm talking about the general conception of it now, is this, now here's what it is. We're down here today, tomorrow maybe you'll be somewhere else, maybe the next day you'll be back in Los Angeles, you'll be back in the Detroit and what not. And ___ ___ ___ ___ day to day. And people have secret things that's hidden within them. That's why David said, `cleanse thou me oh Yahweh of secret faults,' now this is going to everybody, individual, `and presumptuous sins.' Now then, `we don't want you to know about this, I know I'm wrong but.., we don't want,' I'm using her collectively, `we don't want you to know about this.' Now she's collective, `I just won't say nothing about it, I'll keep that to myself, it's a secret.' And you think, and don't nobody no nothing about it but you. But you're wrong, you're just wrong. You're, you're just as wrong as you can be. To tell you the truth, everybody knows something about it but you, because I just got through telling you I a while ago that.., they don't know what's in the Bible, they're reading you. Now you're reading the Bible and you think that the other fella don't know nothing about, don't know nothing about.., and everybody knows something about it but you. You think you're covered up and you're hid. I'm talking about Yahweh knowing the heart and the mind. Now Yahweh knows His own, the devil knows his. Yes indeed.

DR. RONALD GRIGGS: Doc, from my Ronald Griggs, carnal, selfish point of view, do we have to go home tomorrow?

DR. KINLEY: Well, Ronald, you asked me a question. It is my intentions, let's put it that way, I tried to think of a decent word. When you said `we', you included the whole group. Is that what you meant?

DR. RONALD GRIGGS: Yes, sir.

DR. KINLEY: Now you referred the question to me. Now, I'd prefer.., now, now, since you referred to question to me personally and individually, now personally and individually I don't have to go home tomorrow or the next day or the next day or the next day or the next day after that. But now what, what should happen is this: and I've said all along, I, I don't intend to be a dictator, so I would prefer to leave it up to the group, what they want to do. And just like Dr. Harris come right to the door this morning, said, `Doc, it's 5 o'clock and I commence coming out.' And later on he came back and said to me, said, `the man, he called up up there and the man said it's raining and he didn't think the boat.., it would continue to rain, he didn't think the boat would go out of the ___ ___, they'd know in about 45 minutes.' And if he didn't call him and tell him then he'd know by that that they wasn't going out. So I just took it right from there and went on back and got back into bed. I just took off what I had on. No, that was the best thing I heard. Now I'm saying that to say this: it's left to the discretion of, of the group. Now instead of putting the question to me, then if you put it to me individually I'm not gonna say that you just have to go home. I'm not gonna say either way. I could go ahead and make a whole lot out of that but, when you say go home, we don't have no intentions of sitting here no how. But I understand what the man is talking about, so now each one of you has a job to go to Monday morning, come Monday morning. Tomorrow is Sunday and that's the Sabbath with some people. I'm talking about the course of time. Some want to do one thing and some want to do something else and some have obligations and responsibilities and others don't; in other words it's compulsory for some to be back and some not to be. So now he's asking, so now I'd rather refer the question to someone else or to the group. Is that right? Now, one may say this, `well, I'd like very much to stay but I have to be there because of a previous commitment,' and so forth and so on. But with me, I, I, I didn't finish Ronny, but with me, I, I think, I think I should repeat, with me it's irrelevant and immaterial to me.

(DISCUSSION AMONG THE GROUP)

(TAPE 1 SIDE 2)

(DISCUSSION AMONG THE GROUP)

DR. RONALD GRIGGS: No Doc, what I was looking at.., I realize, I realize, what I was looking at is it's been a perfect trip, it's been such a perfect trip and very relaxing and the fishing ground and all that. I don't know, I guess...

(DISCUSSION AMONG THE GROUP)

DR. GROSS: The BaHai's put on an entertainment and said that was a taste of the new earth state. You know, remember when they had that over there at the Ebell Theater.

DR. KINLEY: Yeah, well I'm not gonna approve of that. MAN: Good Doc, good...

(DISCUSSION AMONG THE GROUP)

DR. KINLEY: And I'll tell you something else about BaHai Faith and I got a pamphlet in the drawer at home to prove it. They say that Baha Uula was the Lord of this age.

DR. FRED ALLEN JR.: Who was the what?

WOMAN: Baha Uula was the lord of this age. BaHa Uula. DR. KINLEY: I can't find that in the Book to save myself. Can you find it in the book?

(DISCUSSION AMONG THE GROUP)

DR. KINLEY: I could state who he was. And I will just give you one, but I won't go no further, and that's the so called Melchizedek that come here ___ ___ ___ ___

WOMAN: You mean Michael, WOMAN: Melchizedek priesthood. Oh. DR. KINLEY: Now he's not the only one, don't think that's the only one because I just said that one, I just said one.

(DISCUSSION AMONG THE GROUP)

DR. KINLEY: Now they think that our classes we have, but Dennis brought it out, and he said that we have class every night somewhere. Something like that, ___ ___ ___ ___ ___ and they got mad about it, they started to put him out of the car, he was pretty close to the school, they just said `well, we just can't do that.' Well, what I'm saying to you is this: now, we're paying $20 a night down there for that place and not for somebody to come in and try to show how great they are and what all they did and this, that, and the other about things like that, which I've tried to tell you all. Why then, if you do that, then the people, they don't wanna hear you speak at all, they know you don't know about things ___ supper, that they know ___ enough to come there paying $20 and all. I don't think Joe Huyssee puts all that much in the collection; in other words if he wants to pay $20 to go down there and waste somebody's time. Well then you pay for it, if not that then go and preach the gospel. Now how about that? Get in order. I'm down there trying to hide, and he's down there trying to show off with his robes and long hair and all that kinda junk.

DR. GROSS: He was saying when he wanted to ___ ___ like that, that robe that he had on, revealing that, he was able to go in pretty near every place that they have...

DR. KINLEY: Yes, I know. DR. GROSS: Rome DR. KINLEY: ___ ___ he was telling the truth about that.

DR. GROSS: And I was thinking about, if I just got out and put on that robe and tried to stand up in ___, then they would wanna check up on me...

DR. KINLEY: Now you see, men are known by the garb they wear, not the truth they bear.

(DISCUSSION AMONG THE GROUP)

DR. GROSS: Another one is Christmas out there, ___, and to me, I think it is, it's edifying to put up somebody like that occasionally so you can what they have to say.

DR. KINLEY: Well, you and Dr. Harris is the boss. DR. GROSS: Well, now to contrast Joe, I would rather put somebody strange up there rather than Joe. WOMAN: How much stranger can you get?

(DISCUSSION AMONG THE GROUP)

DR. KINLEY: Dr. Gross means they've already judged Joe, they need to have another one.

DR. EDNA BOWDY: Well, I think we have enough contrast out in the world without bringing any kind of contrast in the school. ___ ___ ___ ___ ___ hear the gospel preached for ever, whenever, every opportunity and.., now we have got to spend the time to have the other ___ have that, these other ministers come and put `em on the floor and they take up just about all the time, and sometimes we have new people come in there and our teacher don't have time to get ___ everyone that we have ___ the truth and not have this contrast Dr. Gross. I don't think we need that.

DR. GROSS: Well, I don't know....

DR. KINLEY: See the Levitical priesthood, I'm speaking collectively not individually, I'm not talking about Joe that didn't approve of.., I'm not talking about that. Now then, I'm talking about the others that did approve and there is people that they influenced, was no 3000 in the Sanhedrin Council. How many was in there?

WOMAN: 70.

DR. KINLEY: Now then, they are the ones that said crucify him. They went out to John's baptism, I'm going clear back, they rejected, they, they wouldn't be baptized or nothing and then there was people that they had influence over `em, because all the...

(BLANK ON TAPE FOR ABOUT 30 SECONDS)

LENA GROSS: Before they offered up the sacrifice for the Day of Atonement. Now, my question is: what time did they have to be through with that service? Now, the high priest had to be in there at 9 o'clock in the morning and this, that, and the other.., his usual routine. Now on the Day of Atonement, which is the 10th day of October, he couldn't offer up his usual routine in the Day of Atonement sacrifices all at the same time. I mean what time was it? I don't know, I'm asking.

DR. KINLEY: I just want to know LENA GROSS: I mean I'm asking. DR. KINLEY: Look here. LENA GROSS: Yes, sir.

DR. KINLEY: This is what you do often time, you jump way over something to get to something else. Now, let me put it like this, in, on that Day of Atonement the daily sacrifices was ___ like it was every other time but all of them.., you couldn't offer up a different sacrifice because you did have a lamb, goats and bullocks, and turtle doves. You can't offer up nothing different on that day, then what you did on the other days. Now what you.., this daily sacrifice (now get this straight), let me put it like this, now here's the easy way to put it: one day for a year. Now this is the easy way of putting it: one day for a year. Now, if you take the daily sacrifice and one day is for a year, although the High priest did not go into the Most Holy Place until on the Day of Atonement, but.., I'm saying if you take a day for a year, that we have a special day set aside here, that is the Day of Atonement, ___ ___. Well, my point is this, if you take one year for.., every day is the day of Atonement when he offered up them sacrifices, but the difference is on this special day he just goes into the Most Holy Place. When he's burning that incense in that sanctuary everyday and killing them bullocks and turtle doves and things, everyday, the lamb and goats, everyday. Then if you take it one day for a year, everyday is a Day of an Atonement.

LENA GROSS: Oh, I didn't know that before...

DR. KINLEY: Do you understand what I mean by that? But what happens is this: on the Day of Atonement a memorial is made of all the sins that was, that had accumulated and the High Priest goes into the Most Holy Place; in other words, there's a memorial made of the whole thing. That's the reason why Yahweh said, `their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more,' not that He had forgotten but He meant He don't remember to bring them against you, He hadn't forgotten, because they're dismissed, the accusation.

LENA GROSS: I thought He was rushing up and making the, the sacrifices for that one day and the Day of Atonement. You all knew it, but I didn't know it before. I said how can he get in there, do all that work, on the Day of Atonement I'm talking about, now that's the day I'm talking about.

DR. KINLEY: Well, on the Day of Atonement he changed his garments and went into the Most Holy Place, but all the other days he did not go in there, to the Most Holy Place in accomplishing the daily service, but every time there was a sacrifice offered, every day in the year, they were offered for atonement, but now then they had a special day here where he not only goes in the Holy Place but he changes his garments, and I'm making this.., cutting this up short, and goes into the Most Holy Place. Then one day is for a year, that's prophetic time. Now if you gonna look through that, and see what that means over here, then it means this, seeing He lives forever. He's not dead, and gonna wake up in to one year from the day of His.., and just only on the Atonement as it was described there, all the time or in the eternal realm making intercessions for us everyday. He is the atonement offered once and once for all, there will be no more sacrifice offering for sin, sacrificial offerings for sin He's the end of it. Clean? Clear?

LENA GROSS: Yes, sir. DR. KINLEY: You have anything to add to that? Understood?

LENA GROSS: I didn't know it before though. I'm speaking specifically of the Day of Atonement, now that's what I'm speaking specifically of. I'm clear now.

DR. KINLEY: You have another thing coming up there too, there's Pentecost. While there is just a limited number of ___ or so on, why then, then you got a mass for.., make it 10,000 ___ about that ram on the alter was offered up. Here you don't have that many as that is an every day thing, that one pointed to the many on that special day and they just had more of the same sacrifices.

DR. GROSS: I'd like to add.., I'll ask this, that you were saying that they couldn't go into the Most Holy Place without the censor...

DR. KINLEY: and the blood DR. GROSS: and the blood. Right. DR. KINLEY: Often times we leave out blood. DR. GROSS: Now they would had to go in all 3 times on the Day of Atonement the ___... DR. KINLEY: That's right. You're talking about the Day of Atonement now.

DR. GROSS: As I understand it to answer her question, when the shechinah flashed at the end of the service it had to be high noon.

DR. KINLEY: Now you take., let's look, let's look at this, so we.., this should be understood, this is a cardinal point that should be understood. Now, this offering up for sin was not a daily thing. No. Now while the Catholic Church runs backwards and forwards and confessing this and that and the other and so forth and so on, that just means a continuation in the thing. You're not gonna do right, it don't have no effect on you and it's nothing but a ceremonial operation and a.., it's a recrucifixion and putting Him to an open shame, making it of none effect because it's insufficient to make you behave yourself. You see what I mean, you understand what I mean about what I'm saying?

LENA GROSS: Now you said a while ago about the dove, about the turtle dove...

DR. KINLEY: I want to get this in there too, which was really what I'm trying to explain. Now in that, He was made to be sin for us and Yahweh loosed the pains of death and resurrected Him from the dead because He was offered for our transgressions, our sins and, and He was not guilty of any sin or anything like that, if He did, He wouldn't be a fit sacrifice to offer. He's offered once for all and then.., or you'd be running backwards and forwards as they did there, then you have denied the power of Yahweh and He was cleansed of the sins and the responsibility as a sin offering, He was.., where He'd taken the guilt of the world upon Him or He's taken the Adamic transgression upon Him and He died in innocency; and for that reason, though He bore the sins of many, why then He was released from it because Yahweh had accepted Him as a, as a, as a prepared and, and a special sacrifice to redeem or to restore and while He was charged with the responsibility down there or made to be sin in His innocency then He was relieved of all of that. And He loosed the pains of death and all and accepted Him as a, as a fit sacrifice to be offered.

DR. RONALD GRIGGS: Doc, in explaining this what I'm about to ask, when Yahshua was on the cross and it says that, where he, when the guard, the soldier couldn't break His legs, and he marvelled at how the Messiah had died, or He was dead there on the cross. Now when He died on the cross, He gave up the ghost right there, didn't He, when He died, I mean He died on the cross.

DR. KINLEY: When you say he gave up the ghost, now what do you mean by that?

DR. RONALD GRIGGS: Well now, here's the question that was put before me. Now when we say that He, He was put in the grave and He, and He rose again on the third day. Well now, He died on the cross physically so, so if He died on the cross, physically so, before He was put in the grave, wouldn't you have to say that He gave up the ghost then?

DR. KINLEY: Yes, but now wait a minute. What I'm talking about, now let's see if we can get straightened out there, where we can confirm what we're talking about. You have to have something to point to to prove these things. When Adam touched the fruit of the tree out there in the garden, right then and there he died. For 930 years I would say he's buried. You get my.., you understand what I mean? Now here's the Messiah. Now using the cross the same as I do the tree in the garden. I'm saying that: now here's the tree in the garden (the tree and the cross are one and the same) but when the man took, partaken of the fruit of the tree, right there is where he died, which means He has to die out there on the cross before He's buried or gave up the ghost. Now when you say gave up the ghost, Adam's mind become carnal. You see what I mean? Now when He died, He'll have, He'll have to die on the cross, He can't die out there in the grave, He has, because if you put Him dying out there on the grave, then He wouldn't die for hanging on the tree. Now what do you mean when you say He died out there on the cross. Well, this is what is meant: that the spirit or His life, that's what it means when it says `give up the ghost.' A lot of people don't understand what you mean when you say `he gave up the ghost.' It just means the breathe of life left that body, hanging out there on the cross, He quit breathing out there, He died; in, in, in, in other words He gave up the ghost. He wasn't in Joseph's new tomb.

DR. RONALD GRIGGS: No, but that...

DR. KINLEY: Well, I'm just saying now, I'm.., what I'm trying to do is show you how, show you how to prove a point. You can get over here at the cross arguing without going back there and looking and seeing, and you got a problem on your hands proving this to some.., somebody else. You got yours.., you got yourself in trouble. If you can't go back there and prove it, that he died at that, on that tree, back there in the garden, good and evil, that same day, he gave up the ghost, he become guilty so then if that be the case then He got to die on that, on that tree or on that cross. He's got to give up the ghost or spirit, use these words often times, the, the breath of life left that, that body or He gave up the ghost and He did die that day even before the soldier got to Him to pierce Him. You follow? Well, what do you wanna say that for: before the soldier got to Him to pierce him. You got to always have this stuff in you right, like it oughta be. The devil never got to Adam, he got to the woman. Do you follow me there? Do you follow me there?

DR. RONALD GRIGGS: Well, that explains that because what I was having trouble in explaining was when He died physically and naturally, He gave up that breath of life or just died out there on the cross before the soldier pierced Him then when He was put in the grave and He resurrected a quickening spirit on the 3rd day. Well now, the same sp.., when He resurrected a quickening spirit on the third day, it's the same spirit I'm talking about that He gave up on the cross before He was even put in the tomb.

DR. KINLEY: Revisitation is what you're talking about. LENA GROSS: Revisitation, he said. DR. RONALD GRIGGS: OK, like he, like he just explained it, he had to go clear back to the garden DR. KINLEY: That's right. DR. RONALD GRIGGS: of Eden first.

DR. KINLEY: In that, that's going down to degeneration, the revisitation of the spirit and the changing of that body, that, that's regeneration. That's operation there.

DR. FRED ALLEN JR.: That's operation of Yahweh DR. RONALD GRIGGS: But that was the same spirit? DR. KINLEY: Oh indeed. LENA GROSS: Yes. Any more questions before I ask my question? You mentioned about the...

DR. KINLEY: They're changing clothes too. I want to, when I go along the lines I like for you to see it all the way through, but it was not visible to all of them.

DR. RONALD GRIGGS: In other words when He died on.., it was a glorified body when He was walking around the earth plane. It's a glorified body when He gave it up on the cross and it's the same glorified body when they saw, resurrecting. That's why Mary there at the grave, they couldn't...

DR. KINLEY: They didn't see Him undergoing the change, putting on the garments of beauty and glory. Now let's get that straight. You have to get that straight. When I said they didn't see that, when the priest, the high priest changed his garments inside of the sanctuary, they didn't see that. That's the reason why the apostle Paul says this, `I reckon that the suffering of this present time is not worthy to be compared with the glory that shall be revealed in us.' Now you have a glorified spirit in you now, but, and an immortal spirit, get me straight on that, but so far as the flesh is concerned, you have not, but it is that spirit in there that will immortalize the body. When?

DR. RONALD GRIGGS: That what he's talking about in the 15th chapter of I Corinthians.. DR. KINLEY: That's right. That's right. DR. RONALD GRIGGS: When mortal must put on immortality. Yeah. That's right.

DR. KINLEY: Now you got something else there that you can have a great big argument about. Great big argument about. Now, I'll pose the question myself. Now, here's Paul going on the way down on to Damascus. Now He's done ascended into heaven, appeared in the presence of Yahweh. And here comes along Paul afterwards, after He's ascended into heaven and Paul saw it. Well, if we are to be changed in our mortal body to a glorified body like that He had when He ascended unto the Father, why then wasn't it.., why wasn't Paul..

LENA GROSS: changed

DR. KINLEY: Why didn't he have an immortal body. Now here's John out on the isle of Patmos. That's after He's resurrected from the grave and he saw Him. Well, why wasn't he immortalized? Paul saw Him also. A lot of people just here think that was the only time he seen Him is when he was going on the way to Damascus. That's not so. He saw Him after that, up there in the temple. And not only that he said, He's with him always. Now I have to get this straight: He's with him. Now he said he'd rather depart from this body and Paul be with Him while as yet He's living. He's with him while he's living, well he'd rather depart ___ and be with Him. Now the cardinal point that I'm trying to bring out here is this: if it's true that when He does appear we shall all be changed in a moment in a twinkling of an eye. If that is true, then why wasn't it that when Paul saw Him going to, on his way to Damascus and the light shone from heaven. Why wasn't he changed? And John saw Him out on the Isle of Patmos out there. Why wasn't he changed? If that's what's gonna be.

DR. KINLEY: Now you all get that fixed for me.

DR. MARION HARRIS: incorporeal form when He was down there in Egypt. When He appeared in, when He appeared as Yahshua down there in Egypt and He dealt with..

DR. KINLEY: When He appeared with Joshua?

DR. MARION HARRIS: No, I said when Yahshua was down in Egypt, and appeared to Moses and Aaron and what have you. Now He was not in a state of death, or I mean in a.., in other words, those that looked upon Him, He did not appear in His glorified form, but yet they looked on Him, even when He went up into the mountain and appeared to Moses and Moses came.., Moses would not as a resurrected form.

DR. KINLEY: Let's, let's, let's, now, let's just take what you just said there. Then let's take the whole thing, the 70 elders up there when He appeared to them up there in ___, why wasn't they changed?

DR. MARION HARRIS: Well, this is what I'm saying.

DR. KINLEY: I'm adding a whole thing to it, if you just wanna draw it out, and go out here and adding the whole thing to it. I tried to condense it.

LENA GROSS: Souls of them crying under the altar, they without us.. DR. MARION HARRIS: Well now, he was there with them...

DR. KINLEY: Now, let's get this straight, now, let's get straight and get, get the question straight first in our mind. Now you're right Marion in what you're talking about.

DR. MARION HARRIS: In other words He'd been with `em all along and they'd been looking on Him, but there's an appointed time.

DR. KINLEY: Well, yes, but the point that I'm trying to bring out here is, which you just added.., I just come over here and condensed it by using Paul and John because it's after the ascension and back to the Father and all like a that. But you, you can't do this without having something back there, and that's the reason why I went on back with you when you said that. You understand what I mean? Well, now my point here is this: if it is true that we are as His revelation, appearance as it says in Philippians there and also stated in the 15th of 1 Corinthians, mentioned `we shall all not sleep, but we shall all be changed in a moment, in a twinkling of an eye.' Now here's what I'm getting at: if Paul saw Him after He ascended now, and John saw Him after He ascended. After. Why wasn't they, why didn't they become immortal if we, at the time we all see Him, why wasn't they, if that's what's gonna happen to us? You got my point? In other words, if Paul saw Him out there in His ___ ___ in all, and he wasn't, become immortal at that time, how can you say then that when you see Him, you'll become immortal, if Paul wasn't immortalized?

DR. RONALD GRIGGS: Doc, does it have anything to do with the day, where everyone'll see Him at that same time, including the ones that's sleeping? Because you can see him right now walking around in that physical.

DR. KINLEY: Yes, that's right. It does have something to do, it has all to do with it. In fact, that's what I'm trying to make you see. That was not a collective thing, that was to, to them, just like it was to the prophets, but when it becomes visible to everybody, every eye shall see Him, even they that ___ shall wail because of Him.

DR. RONALD GRIGGS: Because what I was thinking about, each, each little bit that each individual, each little gift that they have, irregardless of who it might be, of the knowledge of His purpose, they're actually seeing Him, aren't they?

DR. KINLEY: Well, yes, but they're not seeing Him with a physical eye. DR. RONALD GRIGGS: But with.., no, no, I know but with DR. KINLEY: He's not app., not appearing to them with, with a physical eye. DR. RONALD GRIGGS: No, right. But at the day, that day that we're talking about, everyone will see Him DR. KINLEY: That's right. DR. RONALD GRIGGS: collectively. DR. KINLEY: That's right. DR. MARION HARRIS: You can also say that as long as He remains in the flesh. DR. KINLEY: Now that is a mystery. That's the reason why Paul said `behold I show you a mystery.'

DR. MARION HARRIS: I'll tell you one thing that I think that I'm missing is the fact that as long we remain in the flesh, I mean when I say in the flesh, I mean walking around remaining as such. We become Him and until the flesh is consumed at that glorified body that we will become as.., cannot be manifested... In other words, now He walk along the face from the very beginning all the way down through, now when that period has expired according to His purpose, as long as their physical anatomy, I'll put it that way, body walking around, then, look, we become what He was then, as a composite, yet we must always, he said `lo I am with you alway,' Now He will remain in a form or another physically speaking, so naturally we won't be able to take on that that He is, as long as He's in a physical shape and form.

DR. RONALD GRIGGS: Well it says no flesh entereth the kingdom. We have ___ the vail.

DR. MARION HARRIS: Well now, there's 2 different meanings to flesh. There's 2 different meanings to flesh. Flesh can be a carnal mind and flesh can mean a physical body. But as long as any flesh remains which you can take it in both contexts, you won't change, you won't take on... because if he's in a physical and we're in a physical and we say that we are what He is in part and yet it takes up the whole composite to make up Him, and we still got this here mess on. No way in the world for any.., or no way in or out of the world for anyone of us to do any different cause He is it and we are Him. But now if He's come all the way down through the ages and dispensations in a physical form until time or the natural, I'll take away carnal, I'll say natural, is taken away, there's no way in the world for anybody to be glorified.

DR. RONALD GRIGGS: Yea, well, I've heard Doc say ... DR. MARION HARRIS: I mean when I say glorified, yes, you're glorified right now if you perceive.

DR. RONALD GRIGGS: Yes, but I've heard Doc say that you have.., that there are people in that classroom.., even, I've even heard him say that in Ohio, where there'll be change or will see the revelation without, without...

DR. MARION HARRIS: See, comprehend, yes, have visions, yes. DR. RONALD GRIGGS: right here in the flesh. DR. MARION HARRIS: You ain't seen no incorporeal, superincorporeal glorified thing walking nowhere. DR. RONALD GRIGGS: No, I didn't mean that. I didn't say that.. DR. MARION HARRIS: Oh, well that's what I thought we ...

DR. RONALD GRIGGS: No, I didn't say that. In other words, He said there'll be people, there are people sitting right there in that classroom...

DR. MARION HARRIS: To see and comprehend, yes, right now. DR. RONALD GRIGGS: I was talking about the revelation. DR. MARION HARRIS: Yes. Oh, well I thought we was talking about something else, that's how I got.., either one or the other of us aren't on the same thing.

(TAPE 2 SIDE 1)

DR. MARION HARRIS: He was talking about Paul on his way to Damascus, Saul, glorified form of the Messiah, and this is what I thought, but now after he saw it, and He also mentioned John. John saw this glorified form. Now why was it that John and Paul, neither one, were transformed from a natural...

DR. KINLEY: He means why wasn't it? DR. MARION HARRIS: Why wasn't it? DR. KINLEY: That's right. You said why was it.

DR. MARION HARRIS: Well, I didn't mean was, cause it never happened. That they didn't take on the same superincor... or incorporealization that they perceived Him in in that vision.

DR. RONALD GRIGGS: I know, that's what He asked. DR. MARION HARRIS: Now just because someone in our class has seen a vision doesn't mean that they've become the vision.

DR. RONALD GRIGGS: No, we were.., now, now wait a minute now, now we're talking about 2 things now... Doc was talking about the day, everyone, now He answered it when He got up. The reason that they weren't changed then, was because the day, in other words to make a long story short, everyone will see Him at the same time. Even the ones that sleeping, that are sleeping in the dust of the earth.

DR. MARION HARRIS: Those that are sleeping in the dust of the earth saw Him, some of them.

DR. RONALD GRIGGS: But I mean the revelation of the Messiah from heaven, when He renovates the earth and all that, and the old passed away and become new, that's what I'm talking about. The day of Yahweh.

DR. MARION HARRIS: I ain't, I ain't gonna get through to you either. That's the reason why I said you and I were talking about 2 different things.

DR. RONALD GRIGGS: But when you said what, then you come back to the original question: why wasn't Paul or why wasn't he, you said Paul or John changed at that time, right? That question's already been answered.

DR. MARION HARRIS: They ask where they changed.

DR. RONALD GRIGGS: I agree, I agree, I agree they were changed in their mind, I agree 100%. That's where the whole change is while you're in the flesh.

DR. MARION HARRIS: Then evidently I misunderstood the question that you asked Doc trying to explain because I trying to comprehend what you're saying, cause I'm trying to see too. But evidently...

DR. RONALD GRIGGS: It's all in the mind, I'll agree with that... DR. MARION HARRIS: No, it ain't, ain't in no mind, Griggs. Ain't no such thing. DR. RONALD GRIGGS: Well, now where did the change take place if it isn't in your mind? DR. MARION HARRIS: In your spirit. DR. RONALD GRIGGS: Well, why ___ ___.., do you think with your brain? or your... DR. KINLEY: It's warm in here. Yes, it's warm in here because...

(DISCUSSION AMONG THE GROUP)

DR. KINLEY: Yes, I tell you what it is, it's a great, great big mystery all the time. Now let me, in other words ___ ___ that will help you in what we're talking about. And that was this that every eye shall see Him. Now there's a big mistake can be made in that too. People that have eyes can see now, them that don't have none, they can't see. And that's the reason why I said ___ like tonight, if you can comprehend what we're talking about then you can see. Now here's, here's the other part of that, the thing which I'm talking about, here's the other part of it. We have born the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the inner man; in other words an incorporeal son and then there was a physical son. Now we've born the image of the physical and the physical is made in the likeness and the image so far as the structure is concerned. But you don't have, you, you have this treasure in earthen vessels but you don't have an immortal body. Now since we have gotten down to the place which is vitally important, it's one of the most serious and controversial and yet comprehensive if application is applied, things to look forward to in the future. Now if it wasn't for that, you might as well forget it, just might as well forget the whole thing, just throw in the towel and be dismissed. Now, let me say this so that you can fully comprehend what I'm talking about. I think you can shut that thing off now. Let me say this. We stand up there and we preach, and we preach for all that is in us. Now listen at what I'm gonna say, and yet we have those that have set right there in that audience and you can become crystallized, corroded in your own concepts and nothing that nobody says means anything to you and you go on with your same damned old hellish attitude and all and it hasn't been any benefit to you at all. Well now the same thing that we're preaching that should be to the glorification whereas the same thing that we preach that you should accept as a,, and then it'll have some effect on you, it'll take that old hellish nature out of you, and that old retaliating spirit and that animosity and all that. It'll take it out but you still got it and you're still going to school and you got the same damnable spirit and you're going there every, every Sunday and every, every day in the week and you just become a, what's really happening, let me give it to you in these words, now this is what's happened, you're being hardened.

DR. RONALD GRIGGS: Now Doc, is that taking, how is that taking place?

DR. KINLEY: How is that taking place? That's what I'm trying my best to explain now. I'm saying you're going to school, you're hearing and you're setting up there and you're supposed to be learning something and then when you get out of class and go right back to the same damn thing you done been doing all, all along. And you wanna make somebody think that you are something when you're nothing. And you know within yourself. Now this is, just like Pharaoh now. Let me show you what I'm talking about. Moses and Aaron was delivering to Pharaoh the Word of Yahweh and it was the word that was hardening him. Now when you set up down there in the class and the word is being preached to you and you're hiding behind your own concepts, got the same hellish attitude and disposition, same malice and all, and yet and still you claim to be a partaker of it. You're wise up in your own conceits. Now that's the very thing that will destroy you. Then when someone tries to tell you, tries to explain to you: say, `now, you ought not to be like that.' `Well, don't I have some rights.' And you can find fault with everybody else but you. `There's, there's Mixon, he ain't no go.., now if he was what he oughta be then he wouldn't do this, he wouldn't do that, he wouldn't do the other.' Alright. Let's let you by with that. Now you don't stop there, you go here and condemn everybody in the school but yourself. `And there's Dr. Gross, he wouldn't do this, and that and the other if he was like what he oughta be.' In other words you establish yourself as a criterion and an authority and you will not accept the words. Now let me get, let me see if I can get something on that, on the ball there. Let me see if I can. Now Yahweh brought them all out of Egypt, I'm talking about Jews now where you can read it, and afterwards He destroyed them that believed not. You see what I'm talking about? Now they were out... You have the word preached to you, you don't have no excuse for stumbling and blundering around in the way Yahweh has given you somebody to bring you out and telling you what reality of it is. Telling you Yahshua the Messiah bore the, Mixon's faults and Dr. Gross' faults and everybody else's faults. He was the goat that you might be the righteousness of Yahweh in Him. Now here you are sitting around talking about Mixon's faults and Dr. Gross' faults and everybody else's faults as a criterion and you yourself... Now if those, just turn it around the other way. Now if Mixon would commence to tell me of my faults and Dr. Gross would commence and tell me of my faults, then it would indicate then that the same thing that I'm laying on you and laying on the other fella, I'm guilty of myself. You get what I'm talking about? Now what that is doing is just hardening and you get around to the place where you just don't care what nobody says. And you.., and, and for fear, just like the Jews (many of `em, priests and Pharisees, your book says so) they believed on him and Nicodemus said they did, but they wouldn't confess him. Well why? Because of the fear of the Jews. Now here you got a class down here and you yourself is blaming everybody else with something and you yourself, you are.., you have set yourself up as a criteria, and you point out the faults of everybody else and nobody is pointing out yours. And the very same one that you say, `well Mixon ain't no good and Dr. Gross ain't no good.' You got something to say about everything they do or what not or everybody in the school but you. Now if they would do the same thing about you that you have done about them, then you'd commence to cry and say, `well you misjudged me.' They didn't misjudge you, no such of a thing. Why? Because all unrighteousness is sin. Now here's the Messiah, said to them, `love your enemies.' Now you can't do that. What is really meant by you do this and that and the other, is this: you can't do it unless.., now it's got to be real, there ain't gonna be no faking about it, ain't gonna be no faking about it. Now you might fool somebody else or some of the people some of the time, but you can't fool all the people all the time. The very fact that I'm gonna run you down and keep running you down, that proves of itself that I ain't no good, I ain't what I oughta be.

DR. RONALD GRIGGS: Now doc, when you, now, now, now, I have to back up a little bit. Now, if the.., if the Holy Spirit has you and the Holy Spirit being a discerner of spirits

DR. KINLEY: Of the thoughts and the intents of the mind

DR. RONALD GRIGGS: Of the thoughts, okay, now. And you, and you can see what another, what kind of spirit is operating in another vessel, and you say that it's, it's the devil or the satanic.., now how can you love the devil?

DR. KINLEY: Well, look, I've made that clear too. Very clear. No. Ain't nothing in no book about loving the devil. DR. RONALD GRIGGS: But I mean if it's manif.., if in that vessel...

DR. KINLEY: But I'm just sayin.., now, no, if you took the 2nd chapter of Revelation, the deeds of the Nicolaitanes, which Messiah told John on the Isle of Patmos, that He hated `em. Now, there's no commandment in the Book that you should love the devil. Now let me explain that. All of our people that are affiliated and associated with that school, I'm using this as, as a parable, a collective parable, about taking this little group. I'm using it that way. Now here is the people that profess to be.., and all, and yet have a satanic spirit but the world looks upon them as righteous because they are affiliated with the group. Now, you won't admit that while you're present in the group so far as people are concerned, you won't admit that. Rather than to admit that you're the one that's wrong, you'll make all the rest of `em wrong. And the reason why you're in this group this way is because you believe that it is right, what is being preached and taught, you believe that. You get the point? And you are setting yourself up as being what is being taught, when right within your own self, you know you're not. And you're setting your own self up as a criterion. Now we hate a satanic spirit in everybody, it don't make no difference who it is, even if it's mother. And look, let me say this to you. Now we talk about, now there's a gift of discerning of spirit. There's a gift of discerning of spirit. Now, you can set and listen at people talk and discern what spirit they are of, that is if you (I'm not talking about just testifying and saying you got something) but if you really have it you can discern it in everybody else that don't have it. That is if you have it. I said if you have it. Now I'm.., now, don't, don't, don't, don't miss, miss, misunderstand me. There's all, everybody's saying they got it or got Him. Everybody's saying that. But there's somebody there that's capable, qualified, and has that spirit of discerning or in other words Yahshua the Messiah is really in `em. Now there's, there is no.., Yahshua the Messiah said that the devil.., he don't have nothing in Me. I don't have nothing in him and yet, let me put it like this, he's my devil. That's my devil. That's the reason why Yahweh wouldn't allow them after He put that mark on Cain, to kill him. Why? What's? You got to have a negative and a positive, a good and a bad. Now you bear the sufferings and the marks of Yahshua the Messiah in your body, well then, don't you think he's gonna have to have some kinda of a mark on him. Now these marks mean something.

What we're talking about now, now let's, let's get down to the brass tacks. And I have to say this now before somebody individually is gonna say this, `well, Dr. Kinley was talking up there in San Luis Obispo about me, he was throwing rocks at me.' Now, when we leave here, why I wanna say that, you gonna hear about it. And then another one will say over yonder that he was throwing rocks at me. Another one over there say, `he was throwing rocks at me.' And when you get done with all the me's that I'm throwing rock at.., now I mean how you take it individually, personally. I done throw the rocks at everybody. Every last one. I just throw the rocks at everybody. `I know he was talking about me because I, I.' The thing is coming home. Say, `he, he, he wasn't talking about nobody but me.' And then the next one will say `he wasn't talking about nobody but me.' And the next one will say, `he wasn't talking about nobody but me.' A conscience is a terrible thing. Now what we're really talking about is the unrighteous. Now if me is unrighteous then I'm talking about you. Now that's the way the thing is, that's the way the thing is.

Now what we should do is this: we should take these things to, we should take them to heart, we just should, because it is you that I'm talking about. So let's don't make no mistake about it and then try, mean right, you know when you are not up to what you ought to be, you know that. Now look, there ain't nobody know better than what they ought to be, so then just don't go around blaming somebody else, take it to yourself. And then what happens is this. Yahweh does, this is the way He does. You're walking, you're, you're walking down through the dispensations and ages and if you come to these things where you see for yourself through the preaching of the gospel, if you're not up to it, jump up to it. Submit yourself as Paul says of you to the righteousness of Yahweh which is by faith. And that you might not be found with your own righteousness. So that's the way it goes, that's the way it goes.

Yes indeed, so always consider that the gospel is to you, it's to you, and you have been.., you have have a daily ministration...

(TAPE ENDS)